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 Post subject: 2nd Korean War
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:38 pm GMT 
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Well, actually the Korean War Continued, since technically the first never ended.
I have noticed that we generally have a very intelligent and educated community here, so I have created a thread to discuss one of the current problems facing our nation: North Korea.
I just wanted an honest discussion about it. I don't know a lot of the opinions out there on the topic, and am extremely curious.
Suggestions to discuss:
Validity of North Korean Threats
Protection of our good friend (South Korea)
How it might piss of China, One of the North's only ally.

Also open to discuss:
Iranian threat and possibility of war.
Russia's declaration of protection for Iran.
Israel's protection.

I personally think that Kim Jung Un is an idiot who will get millions of his own people killed, trying to attack South Korea and us, though the sooner we are able to topple the oppressive leader, the better. There are jokes that North Korea couldn't nuke us, though our government seems to deem him a threat, as about 18 (I think I remember that correctly) new anti missile sights are now being built along the west coast.

I do not know enough about the Iran threat, and am curious.

Let the reasonable discussion begin!

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Korean War
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:44 pm GMT 
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Well, it's difficult to assess how much of a threat North Korea truly presents; it's the most secretive nation on earth. Their missiles are, apparently, theoretically able to reach US soil (though most probably just the sparcely-populated western area of Alaska)... but they've never had a successful test.

They could be decades away, or they could be much closer. They certainly want the world to think they're capable. They believe the world to be against them (which isn't entirely untrue).



Iran is a completely different issue, because Iran claims its Uranium enrichment program is purely for peaceful uses (generating nuclear power). The USA is distrustful of this claim, because Iran is a hardline theocracy with frequent anti-US rhetoric. Thus, the US warns and threatens and cajoles the Iranian government.

The thing is, for the USA to threaten and to punish another country for pursuing nuclear technology is mindblowing hypocrisy. The US has one of the largest nuclear arsenals in the world; it pursues it without shame, and the US is also the only nation on earth ever to use such weapons against human beings.

To be clear: I don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons. I don't trust Ahmadinejad when he claims that he's pursuing the technology for peaceful purposes, because Ahmadinejad is a madman. But the USA must recognise its own rank hypocrisy. It cannot seriously expect to be recognised as a moral authority in its current situation. The world does not see it as such.

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Korean War
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:26 pm GMT 
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Sure, even if North Korea DID launch nuclear weapons at U.S. territory and we weren't able to take them down, we'd still most likely retaliate with an even larger armament of nukes. North Korea knows when it launches its weapons, they're doomed.


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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Korean War
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:27 am GMT 
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not much of a threat.
Rybird wrote:
How it might piss of China, One of the North's only ally.

China isn't to happy with them already.

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Korean War
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:12 am GMT 
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Rybird wrote:
I personally think that Kim Jung Un is an idiot [...]

Don't know if there are many who would disagree. Though, after growing up in a country where his father was more or less God, being taught that he would be the next one and only Almighty personage, it's not strange if Kim Jung Un is in need of a bit of a reality check...

However. I find it interesting how this has been reported in news globally. It makes it all seem like this would be an "ordinary" war, with two sides where different countries would ally themselves and start throwing nuclear weapons around. Bad guys vs good guys.

The thing is that in a nuclear war there are no winners. No one can win a war with nukes, there will only be losers, and not only those who are in this war will lose, but the entire world will lose. The effects of nuclear war cannot be contained, and there is no telling how many million civilian and neutral people would be affected or killed because of it. Children, adults, young, old, military, civilians, neutral, antagonistic, democracies, dictatorships... It's not going to benefit anyone. And no matter where these missiles can reach, and no matter who they are aimed at, they are a threat to life as we know it. It is a shame, the day this power was developed for warfare. But, I suppose the fact that humans have thought up more ways to end life than to save it speak to the reasons why we shouldn't be trusted with taking care of ourselves and our planet.

With that said, while the USA might be worried about an attack, I think that I am honestly mostly concerned for the South Koreans. I'm not well-versed in military tactics, but being more or less an island, quite far from everyone else, doesn't that mean America is rather safe from any invasion? As long as you don't piss of Canada or Mexico, you should be able to avoid war on American soil until someone else is hit by murderous creativity in a few years.

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Embodiment of contradictions
 Post subject: Re: 2nd Korean War
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:55 am GMT 
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Tommy_Gunn wrote:
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I'm boned.

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Korean War
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:46 pm GMT 
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smarticus wrote:
Tommy_Gunn wrote:
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I'm boned.


Its only in development, and besides, the North Korean aeronautics program is akin to the Kerbal Space Program.


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The insane make great friends
 Post subject: Re: 2nd Korean War
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:17 pm GMT 
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Silvanus wrote:
To be clear: I don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons. I don't trust Ahmadinejad when he claims that he's pursuing the technology for peaceful purposes, because Ahmadinejad is a madman. But the USA must recognise its own rank hypocrisy. It cannot seriously expect to be recognised as a moral authority in its current situation. The world does not see it as such.


Well, I agree with you partway. The U.S. knows how horrible nukes are. We opened the Pandora's box (the Russians gaining the tech from us) and now want to stop them from falling into the hands of someone who is murderous and insane. The hypocrisy comes in when the U.S. uses the threat of nukes as a diplomacy tool, much like what we did during the cold war. Its completely understandable that a smaller country would want them also.

As of now, though, the U.S. seems pretty justified in wanting to keep them out of the hands of someone who can kill millions with those nukes. Today, the U.S. seems to have grown. We realize that it would be absolutely silly to use nukes as a diplomacy tool, as we would all be wiped out if this happened. Countries like North Korea and Iran, however, do not seem to grasp this fact. So the U.S., having learned from their mistakes when they had no mentor, now keep the younger ones (nuclear wise) from being even more idiotic.
Tommy_Gunn wrote:
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not much of a threat.

China isn't to happy with them already.


Nice, haven't seen this before.

Northern_pearl wrote:
Rybird wrote:
I personally think that Kim Jung Un is an idiot [...]

/quote]
However. I find it interesting how this has been reported in news globally. It makes it all seem like this would be an "ordinary" war, with two sides where different countries would ally themselves and start throwing nuclear weapons around. Bad guys vs good guys.

The thing is that in a nuclear war there are no winners.

With that said, while the USA might be worried about an attack, I think that I am honestly mostly concerned for the South Koreans. I'm not well-versed in military tactics, but being more or less an island, quite far from everyone else, doesn't that mean America is rather safe from any invasion? As long as you don't piss of Canada or Mexico, you should be able to avoid war on American soil until someone else is hit by murderous creativity in a few years.


I agree with you completely. I'm not sure why people are not more fearful of this. If there is a war, it will not end in our country going "in and kicking ass". There will be bombs, and a broken country.

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And then stuff happened.
 Post subject: Re: 2nd Korean War
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:03 pm GMT 
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There are two documentaries about North Korea that I have found very, very interesting.

National Geographic: Inside North Korea

Kimjongilia

The second one, moreso. "Marked by a long history of repression and information control, North Korea continues to scrupulously monitor the activities of its citizens. This exposé reveals daily life under a totalitarian regime as well as the stories of prison camp survivors. Filmmaker N.C. Heikin draws on her artistic sensibility as a dancer and performer to craft a stylish documentary that bears a surprising message of hope and inspiration."

Apparently, the country is in such bad shape that their military hospitals mostly treat soldiers who are suffering from SEVERE malnutrition. Bad enough that the soldiers rip up their own soccer fields to plant beans just so they have something to eat. You sneeze wrong and you're thrown into one of their work camps that supposedly don't exist. You know the wrong people and you're thrown in. And they don't just throw you in. Their policy is 'three generations'. They take you and your parents and children or you and your children and grandchildren or you and your parents and grandparents, and then your aunts and uncles and nieces and nephews in those generations, and throw them all in the camp with you. So you get the pleasure of knowing your family is dying right along with you and it's your fault somehow. The people are starving. All of them. But they're so fearful and brainwashed that they can't do anything about it.

And the things they're forced to make in those camps are exported to Russia, China, France...

As for whether they're a threat? Maybe their government, but their army? Ok, an army of near-dead skeletons might be pretty threatening, but most of them would defect the second they get a chance. Another thing that's interesting is right on the border where North Korean soldiers face off with South Korean soldiers, the South Korean soldiers all face the boarder. The North Korean soldiers all face each other. To make sure they don't try to defect.

Other than that, I have only one more opinion. No country can shoot off their own nukes, because everyone knows that would start an hour long WWIII and it would wipe out pretty much everything. It's a who-has-the-biggest-dick thing. "Psh, I've got 15!" "Ha! I have 30!" But there are only straight men in the race and no women, so, it doesn't matter. Ya can't use 'em. Polish 'em all ya want, it won't do any good. What an intelligent government would do is retaliate against the use of nukes with non-nuke weapons. Blow them off the face of the map and let it stand as an example to everyone else. "Yeah, ya shot a nuke. Good job. This is what we can do about that. Without killing off the entire population of the world."

The real question with North Korea is whether or not the current government can be removed and the country fixed in any way. The people are so brainwashed and tortured, but there are people who have defected and done fairly well. But it's such a delicate situation and placing the wrong person in a position of power where the subjects expect to be trampled all over...Well, as the saying goes, power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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 Post subject: Re: 2nd Korean War
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:44 pm GMT 
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Hank Green made a short video about the "threat" of the D.P.R.K. which I think deserves a post here:

North Korea: Explained


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Propane is flammable
 Post subject: Re: 2nd Korean War
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:51 am GMT 
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On the nuclear scale let's not forget the anti-ICBM lasers that we have developed. I would also like to talk about their military. personally i think we would win against them if they attempted to attack. i was looking at some videos and noticed that their navy consisted of about 6 WWII destroyers. their air force consists of a few mig-15,19, and 29's so air superiority wouldn't be that hard to achieve. So with all of that support from naval and Aerial units, if we sent in our troops with some M-1 Abrams and conducted an assault... I don't think they would win.


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